Question:
Is Ubuntu a victim of its own success, as it gets knocked by so many in Linux world?
Linux Mint 11
2008-06-07 14:32:09 UTC
Speak the word Ubuntu amongst some Linux ranks and its as if you have committed the cardinal sin.

Why is this. Isn't it good that Linux 'whatever flag it flies' is becoming more popular.
Five answers:
Astro
2008-06-07 15:20:56 UTC
Was looking at a answer in another thread and this idea came to mind. At one time Lug, I would've thought 'whatever flag flies' was good enuff for most. Not so sure anymore.

It seems, there are some who see Linux as 'their' toy and don't want others using it. Especially those deemed not adept at the use of the the terminal and the pseudo geek language used by tech wizards to guard their arcane knowledge of the mysterious kernel. Are Linux users afraid of true point-n-click tasks? I see things in distros other than Ubu that I like a lot, but I kinda see where the Cano-Team is trying to get to. Was at DistroWatch earlier, thinking there mighta been a change in the polls. Nope. Ubu top dawg still. Ubu is still my fav by a thin margin. Hafta admit, I'm wanting to drive Mint stable around the block, and Suse is about due. But there's this one lil drive that holds Ubu7.10 that stays by the bench. Ready to pop in and roll. So, you may say Ubu IS a victim of its own choice.

EDITED: Hey!

I only get one thumbs down?!

EDIT again---

Platt, I saw that post!

Nice lil 'discussion', and you did touch on a few salient topics that are overlooked by the noob. I have come to the conclusion that there is no private interpretation....
jplatt39
2008-06-07 23:56:21 UTC
This will be a wordy answer. There IS a lot to cover.



If you want to feel like you or it are being victimized, go right ahead. I'm an art geek who finds Linux and UNIX as useful as drybrush (and more useful than papier mache right now. How did I get into that?). UNIX geeks are the core of the old Linux users. One difference in answers we give is I'll often go back to packages, some of which predate the kernel, but which are still being maintained. You seem to prefer frontends. Neither is itself what I mean by a UNIX geek (sometimes called a mainframer). The GNU tools which are at the heart of the OS were written by UNIX Geeks who are ideologues. They are serious about Free and Open Source Software, they are SUCH excellent engineers my next apparent digression will be a plug, and since they KNOW as engineers, how something works, they like to see it done this way (with FOSS).



What is Ubuntu? You know that I think it is Debian remixed for consumers. Most of the development Canonical and its people do is in Security and updating -- which n00bies and other consumers will be most helped by. They dress it up with snazzy graphics -- which the FSF people have always encouraged --and license packages which may not be so open source. The FSF may object but Linus Torvalds thinks they are just peachy. And he's right. Mark Shuttleworth is a very smart businessman and a very good engineer.



What is the UNIX geeks response? http://www.gnewsense.org is the BEST Ubuntu LiveCD I've tried since 2005. And it's ALL FOSS software. These guys are CONSUMATE engineers. Shuttleworth has been quoted as saying it's better than the Ubuntu Foundation's OWN FOSS Ubuntu.



The hard fact is of course, there are a lot of Unix Geeks who don't believe n00bies and consumers should have the same rights as the rest of us. As I'm typing this on my Gentoo laptop I find myself wondering whether to type "let them eat Gentoo". Now there is a verbal response but it takes time to explain. I started an argument on Goklaw today and didn't get away totally unscathed but what happened in that thread was FUN. It started when someone put in his own two cents about the Future of computing. He seemed to think Multicore processors were a given. Donald Knuth, author of the Tex system, (look it up) and the textbook Mathematical Algorithms (I may have the title wrong. I'm on my Gentoo box and my volumes of it are in the garage) launched a scathing attack on Multicore Processors (as reported in the Register) and I couldn't resist doing a "Donald Knuth might disagree with you". The responses are a better discussion of his importance to the field of Computer Science than I could give. Winter, who I was answering, is a serious computer professional and a thoughtful man whose own responses in the discussion are quite good. I recommend reading it:



http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080501221928722#comments



The point is Knuth recently said he NOW does his serious computing on a laptop not connected to the Internet running Ubuntu. The quote is: "I trust my family jewels to Linux". Since I find computer crashes interesting when they don't happen every day I of course can respect him while choosing not to emulate him. I'm always pushing my hardware too far. I'm an artist.



I seriously have reservations about Linux becoming so popular because we don't all use computers the same way. During the last American Presidential election Chaosium distributed some bumper stickers which read "Cthulhu for President: Why settle for the Lesser Evil?" To me, *nix is still the lesser evil. Commercial Printing has had proprietary standards for more than a century so to me Gimp is useless because it is Open Source (though I USE Inkscape and just watched the movie "Big Buck Bunny" which was produced by the Blender people on Ubuntu systems, this morning and both packages are Open Source). Microsoft would like to replace those printing standards with its own, even though it knows nothing of the subject. They are SURE they know what computing is, and of course, so are many UNIX geeks. And they're all wrong. Other than making marks on a surface, nobody is sure what DRAWING is, and computing is a far more complex subject. So when I run into the occasional fanbois and grrls who think Ubuntu is original and everything is Ubuntu and have no clue that Linux was written to run X-Windows NOT the other way around I'm as put off as I am by those for whom UNIX is a religion -- and every true believer in between. It would be good that Linux 'whatever flag it flies' is becoming more popular, but the only flag all Linux flies is the penguin. Beyond that it flies many many flags and there are many users who can barely talk to each other.
2008-06-07 23:07:21 UTC
People are just stuck up that linux is becoming more mainstream and easier to use, while losers think that only the most basic and difficult versions of linux are good.
Jeffrey F
2008-06-07 21:40:15 UTC
Because of the ease of installation, drivers and the fact that the system is installed on the average computer and WORKS within 15 minutes.



Hard core users of Linux must struggle to get it all to work.....ever try Gentoo?



I just replaced the 2nd of 3 PC OS's with Hardy! only stopping pain for the 3rd system is my new lexmark all in one printer does not work under Linux.
Blueangel
2008-06-07 21:37:09 UTC
ive never had linux or ubuntu so i couldnt tell you i would like to what its like tho


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